Intro to INC
Comments on The last messenger of God.
INC Sermon Won't Work in this Board.Dear Paul,
You being a minister of the INC know and was trained very well how to use Classical Conditioning in order that those that will read your writing will be convinced. Your style is unknown to many, but I can decipher it plain and simple --- you are combining three truths with one false. You think the readers will get hooked to this Pavlonian conditioning. The cases concerning the prophecies of John the Baptist, Apostle Paul, and Jesus Christ, were true. However, your prophecy that Felix Manalo is the bird of prey is a fake, phony, and fraud.
Let's read Isaiah 46:11 using the Today's English Version:
"I am calling a man to come from the east(1); he will swoop down like a hawk and accomplish what I have planned. I have spoken it, and it will be done."
There is a footnote (1) to the word "east". Reading the footnote,it says, "(1) a man to come from the east. See 41:2."
Turning the pages to Isaiah 41:2, it says, "Who was it that brought the conqueror from the east(d)..."
Footnote d is explained below the bible as:
d THE CONQUEROR FROM THE EAST: Cyrus, the emperor of Persia (See 45:1).
Therefore, Felix Manalo is an impostor and a thief of the title of Cyrus, the Persian conqueror.
Concerning Isaiah 43:5-6 NKJ, Verse 5 says, "Fear not, for I am with you;..." The word "you" is not referring to Felix Manalo, but to Israel. Read Isaiah 43:1, it says:
"But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, and He who formed you, O Israel..."
Stealing a title and stealing the prophecy of Israel is not only unchristian but also is abhorred by the modern civilized world. Even in our time, thievery is punishable by imprisonment or even cutting of hands in the Muslim world.
Oh yea! It will not work for you if you're narrow-minded and do not seek the truth!
We do not use what you term as classical conditioning...we only read the passages of the bible and they speak for itself because it is the truth! If you're hurt....then it shows that the "the truth is like a double-edge sword" who will leave a deepest wound in your heart.
The "bird of prey" being mentioned is a man who will execute God's counsel or in other words a preacher of God's word.
The question is, is Cyrus the preacher of God? No, he was a warrior, in fact he don't believe or worship God as stated in Isaiah 45:3 " I will give you the treasures of darkness And hidden riches of secret places, That you may know that I, the Lord, Who call you by name, Am the God of Israel. "
That Cyrus is sent by God to subdue nations for him (Isaiah 45:1) is different from the functions of the "bird of prey" who will executes God's counsel (Is. 46:11). This is the work of God's messenger who will come from the east or a far country. The "east" that was referred to in the bible based on the original Hebrew translation is "mizrach" which is more accurately translated to the far east. The reason he is called a bird of prey because God's children are held captive of the "south" (Catholics) and "north" (Protestants), who will be stashed away by the preaching functions of God's messenger. This prophecy was fulfilled by the commissioning of God's messenger in these last days- Brother Felix Y. Manalo.
Hope again that you will be enlightened on this.
North and South CLARIFIEDPaul,
If you read Isaiah 43:3-6:
3 "For I am the Lord your God, the holy God of Israel, who saves you. I will give up Egypt to set you free; I will give up Sudan and Seba."
4 "I will give up whole nations to save your life, because you are precious to me and because I love you and give you honor."
5 "Do not be afraid - I am with you! From the distant east and farthest west I will bring your people home."
6 "I will tell the north to let them go and the south not to hold them back. Let my people return from distant lands, from every part of the world."
God is talking about Israel in these verses and it is the geographic center so to speak.
If you look in a map, you will see that Egypt is NORTH of Israel. And Sudan is south of Israel.
So to maintain the CONTEXT of what is written in the verses above, North must mean Egypt and and South must mean Sudan.
To say that it is Protestantism and Catholicism respectively is TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
Also, to gather those in the distant east and the farthest west would mean that the people gathered would be in gathered in Israel AND NOT in the Philippines!
Just some pieces of what's on my mind.
You think it's Israel that was referred here? Think again....
From Isaiah 41:8-10 (NKJV), it says:
"But you, Israel, are my Servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, The descendants of Abraham My friend.
You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, And called from its farthest regions, And said to you, 'You are My servant, I have chosen you and have not cast you away:
Fear not, for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, Yes, I will help you, I will uphold you My righteous right hand."
The "Jacob" and "Israel" mentioned in the prophecy are from the "ends of the earth" and are recognized as the seed or descendants of Abraham. We believe that Brother Felix Y. Manalo and the Church of Christ are the fulfillment of the prophecy.
Why? Why it does not refer to Jacob and Israel of ancient times, that is, the descendants of Abraham. Because the above-cited verses are a prophecy, and that prophecies, needless to say, are supposed to tell the future and not the past. The book of Isaiah was written sometime around 740 or 710 B.C. Whereas, some Bible scholars estimate that the death of Jacob was sometime between 1,700 and 1,600 B.C. More or less, a thousand-year-gap lies between the time of Jacob and Isaiah. As such, by the time this particular prophecy was told, Jacob had long been dead. His death was recorded in the book of Genesis, thus:
"When Jacob ended his charge to his sons, he drew up his feet into the bed, breathed his last, and was gathered to his people." (Gen. 49:33).
Thus, old Jacob and ancient Israel could not have been the ones referred to in the prophecy.
And it could not have referred to Felix Manalo either
Ends of the earth is NOT 1914. Apostle Paul declared that he was the fulfillment of this prophecy:
"That thou mayest be a light unto the Gentiles, unto the ends of the earth" KJV
If ends of the earth means 1914, then he should have been alived as of 1914? If ends of the earth refer to time, then it defenitely points to the early part of the first century when Apostle Paul was still alived! Either way, the INC claim is a lie and an absolute nonsense! Ends of the earth is not 1914!
Care to read again in KJV and other interpretations of the bible?...
In King James Version that you quoted, it says here:
"...I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." (Is.49:6)
In the New Revised Standard Version, it says:
"...I will give you as a light to the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.'" (Is. 49:6)
In the New American Standard Bible, what does it says:
"...I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.
In the Dalby Translation, it again says:
"...I have even given thee for a light of the nations, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."
In Young's Literal Translation, what does it says:
"...And I have given thee for a light of nations, To be My salvation unto the end of the earth."
What all these verses mean? It means that the salvation of those who are called by Apostle Paul will be until the end of the earth or in other words until the end of the world. End of the earth here means the end of the world such that salvation will be achieved by those who will be reached by Apostle Paul's preaching.
On whose authority ...
On whose authorityare you interpreting it the way that you do? Why should we believe the INC's interpretation of the Bible when the Early Church Fathers who were Disciples of the Apostles themselves do not share the same view as the INC has? CCOG demanded that you give the credibility of your scholars and to give "scholarly" support to eagles being tanks and whatever nonsense you were speaking about.
On whose credibility?
Do you think that if some bible scholars lend credence to your interpretation would mean that your correct? Is the truth on the words of the bible dependent upon by the bible scholars? Think again....
Apostle Paul said in Romans 10:15 (NKJV):
"And how shall they preach unless they are sent?..."
Why? Why should they be sent in order to preach?
" But now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith-" (Rom. 15:25, NKJV)
So that "the prophetic Scriptures be made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God". That's why God sends messengers to preach His message to people and that one way by which God heralds the coming of His messengers is through the prophecy. We believe that God's plan of salvation in these last days is through the commisioning of His last messenger, Brother Felix Y. Manalo. If you don't believe him, its fine, for many who also didn't believe the coming of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.
How sure are you that ...
Felix Manalo is not one of the FALSE TEACHERS that the Bible itself so strongly warns us.
Whoever DOES NOT believe that Jesus CAME as a human being is from the Evil One.
INC, JW, Mormons, Muslims, etc. do not believe that Jesus came as a human being. They all believe that Jesus is and was ONLY a human being.
But what was Jesus before He CAME as a human being?
Certainly NOT MAN!
So your Felix Manalo is one of those FALSE TEACHERS!
Is He God before he came?
Could you cite a verse that says He is God before He came as a human being?
Jesus is God - Amen?
Paul or James
Read Philippians 2:5-8 below:
Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Jesus Christ was in the form of God, yet he took it upon Himself to become a human being.
It is as clear as day my INC friends. It is not human being coming as a human being.
It is God coming as a human being.
If this is too hard for you to accept, let me rephrase.
It is someone who is in the form of God coming as a human being.
Therefore, the warning in the Bible in 1 John 4:1-3 is really for the likes of Felix Manalo.
1: My dear friends, do not believe all who calim to have the Spirit, but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere.
2: This is how you will be able to know whether it is God's Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as human being has the Spirit who comes from God.
3: But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the Spirit from God. The Spirit that he has is from the Enemy of Christ; you heard that it would come and now it is here in the world today.
Definitely they (the False Teachers) are here in form of Iglesia Ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, Moonies, etc., etc.,
I repeat: Jesus was not a man coming as a man. He was in the form of God coming as a man.
Nope - Jesus Christ is not God..
You have'nt answered my questions on the previous post, so i will rephrase it here again. Since you said that Jesus Christ "was in the form of God coming as a man", then how did Jesus recognized or adressed His Father who is in heaven? What is His belief on His Father who is in heaven?
When God said in the Old Testament that "Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me", is He not telling the truth because you've read that Jesus was being in the form of God? How many God will there be if Jesus is also God?
Hope you can find answers to those questions and not just conclude right away.
The problem with you guys is that you accused us Trinitarians of presenting another and separate God. We don’t say that. What we are trying to prove is that the Son and the Holy Spirit are connected with the Father.
There is only one God, the Father.
The “Son of God” is a spirit and also God.
The “Son of God” is then connected to the “Son of Man”.
You said that and i quote "The “Son of God” is a spirit and also God.
Are you referring to Jesus Christ here? Is he a spirit or a man?
Where do you base your argument "The “Son of God” is then connected to the “Son of Man”? Sounds confusing.
And lastly what supports your argument that "He died because He is Man.
He also does not change because He is God.
He is superior to all prophets, all apostles, all men and even all angels because He is God.
He must be worshipped because He is God.
He is also a creator because He is God.
He is the Word, the Power, the Wisdom of God, therefore He is God.
You have so many loopholes and weird conclusions of your arguments with no supporting verses.
God is All-Powerful
He is so powerful that He can be anybody, anywhere at any one time - OMNI-POTENT and OMNI-PRESENT.
If you disagree with me on this, then you have just under-estimated the Power of God. You have just blasphemed Him.
And don't give me those Malachi and James verses which say that God does not change, because I just wiped out INC's defenses and revealed and exposed that INC took those verses OUT OF CONTEXT which is tantamount to saying that INC are LIARS and DECEIVERS.
Those verses, if taken IN THE CORRECT CONTEXT, indicate that, what cannot change in God is HIS LOVING NATURE.
I CHALLENGE YOU TO REFUTE THIS IF YOU CAN PAUL !!!
You are expected to refute this, lest, INC is really proven to be the liar.
Until you can do so, you have no other option but to accept that God can be the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT, all at the same time.
And to answer your questions, go to this thread and make sure you follow and understand my exchanges with your brother Romans 16:16:
I'll await your response.
Why did your God all powerful cease in His Nature of Allknowing?
Why did your God need to be Given authority and power?
I thought your God's Authority and Power are etenal.
I thought your God is Omnicient forever.
With your posts, Your God is not the same yesterday, today and forever. He died and contradicted His teaching of Eternal Immortality . He did not have any Power and Authority and contradicted His teaching of Omnipotence Eternally.
Your God is an absurd God!
SIR: Why did your God all powerful cease in His Nature of Allknowing?
WINSURFER: God never ceased being all-powerful and all-knowing. He is still the All-Powerful and All-Knowing Father in Heaven while being the humble man Jesus on Earth. Remember God is All-Powerful - He can be anywhere, anytime, all the time. Don't you agree?
SIR: Why did your God need to be Given authority and power? I thought your God's Authority and Power are etenal. I thought your God is Omnicient forever.
WINSURFER: Jesus need not be given authority and power. He had it already before He came into the world as a man. He just emptied Himself of all of these so He could live among us. Why else did Jesus ask the Father to give Him back the glory that He had with the Father even before the world was made? Do you understand that Sir?
SIR: With your posts, Your God is not the same yesterday, today and forever. He died and contradicted His teaching of Eternal Immortality . He did not have any Power and Authority and contradicted His teaching of Omnipotence Eternally.
Your God is an absurd God!
WINSURFER: Oh Sir, Sir, again you've brought the IMMUTABILITY SUBJECT, the GOD IS UNCHANGING subject which you DON'T EVEN HAVE A SINGLE PROOF for !!!
The proofs that you presented were OUT OF CONTEXT, OUT OF CONTEXT, OUT OF CONTEXT !!!
You are lying and you are deceiving. PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. Don't you have any conscience? Don't you feel any guilt that you keep on lying and deceiving? Don't you have any SHAME AT ALL, that it's been proven that those verses are OUT OF CONTEXT and therefore CANNOT prove that GOD cannot change His form.
Tell me Sir - Jesus is the Same, Yesterday and Forever, isn't it? Can you tell me why He is such?
UNCHANGING or BEING THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER - does not pertain to authority, power or form, it pertains to the LOVING NATURE of GOD, of Jesus Christ, the Creator.
When can you ever understand that?
Peace of Mind be to you Sir!